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Old 08-24-2008, 05:45 PM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Default Al Hawadeth Article

I was reading the 2004 Al Hawadeth Article posted on daheshisme.org

I think it is quite an important article because it is relatively recent, and because Al Hawadeth is a large circulation paper

In the second part of the article, available here, http://daheshisme.org/khabar/2004/ju...adeth/001.html
on the 2nd page, on the 4th column,

there is an anecdote told by Hassan Baltagi that seems bizarre to me.

Mario usually is able to spot false anecdotes and I was wondering what he thinks of this one because it seems to me that Dahesh is "out of character" in the story as told.

Here's how it goes :

He (Baltagi) was asked : " It was said that Dahesh was the object of women's attention.

He responded : "This is due to the pro-Government Press. As for Dr Dahesh, he was pure and honest. Dahesh told them : "it is up to the State to bring the proof that I prey on women." The Justice minister at the time was Habib Abou Chahla who was very close to Bechara El Khoury and they attempted to bring a Greek girl who would testify against Dahesh and say that she was attacked by him. The investigator Nadim Harfouche who was interrogating Dahesh asked him during the official enquiry :" Did you attack this woman and to whom does this hair belong ?"

Dahesh responded (and this is where I think it is out of character) : "This hair belongs to your sister !"

The story goes on to say that Dahesh and the judge "exchanged insults in the presence of attorney Edward Noon"; The article says that "Dahesh's appearance changed and he used very harsh words so they kept him locked up until 4 and they later issued an arrest warrant against him and emprisoned him in the Raml Jail. But thet did not find any evidence against him so they issued decree no 1822 while he was in jail in order to extradite him."

Baltagi concludes "this propaganda about Dahesh preying on women started during the Bechara El Khoury administration and is still going on."

My questions are :

- don't you think it is out of character for Dahesh to insult the judge and use foul worlds about the judge's sister ? If so, why is Baltagi, a Daheshist, using this damaging story ?

- wouldn't it be possible, given what the article said about Dahesh changing appearances, that It was Brother Ali who actually took over and proferred the insults ?

From what I gathered from my readings, Dahesh could use harsh words in his writings but he very seldom did so in public in every day life.

I don't know what to make of all this.

Last edited by Ziyad; 08-24-2008 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:12 PM
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Dear Ziyad,

Thank you for bringing this article to our attention.

I looked up the article, and right off the bat, I saw that the caption they placed under the portrait of the man and woman is incorrect. This is not a Georges and Marie Haddad. Far from, as a matter of fact.

This is a picture of Doctor Dahesh and his dear and loyal sister Antoinette.

Next: this story conflicts greatly with what I read in "Innocent in Chains," which is Doctor Dahesh's auto-biographical account of his incarceration, exile from, and return to, Beirut.

In "Innocent in Chains, the Notes" (which are, quite literally, the notes I took down as I read through the two — then, and perhaps still— unpublished manuscripts) we learn why Doctor Dahesh was jailed in the "Raml" (Sand) Prison and that he never received a trial, fair or otherwise.

In other words, and outside of the interrogation he and Joseph Hajjar were subjected to at the police station, he never went before a judge.

And I don't know about Decree # 1822... I know of the Presidential Decree K 1842 that Bechara El Khoury signed on October 8, 1944. And I certainly do not know of any other instance during which Doctor Dahesh was incarcerated in the Sand Prison (or anywhere else for that matter), except for the one I outlined in "Innocent in Chains, the Notes."

And speaking of "Innocent in Chains," in it we learn how Doctor Dahesh feels about (especially public officials) using foul language. His heightened level of sensitivity regarding this matter is evident when we see him express shock and outrage at the type of filth that came out of policemen's mouths while torturing him. It was as if, for one brief surreal moment, all the drama of the physical punishment cleared the stage to make room for his commentary on the use of foul language.

But, despite that, there was a paradox that I have personally experienced, and for the record, I have already written at least one article about this business of Doctor Dahesh and the use of profanity.

The Doctor Dahesh I know never (and please hold that thought) used profanity and was stickler about good manners and decorum. Period.

There were two instances when Doctor Dahesh (in ALL the years I knew him, going back to my early teens to the last time I say him alive in 1984) used foul language.

One time, circa 1983, ( and I was sitting in the back of the car) he asked the person driving (and who was supposed to be among his closest) to call and double check that a certain store was open before we head there.

Now, anyone who knew Doctor Dahesh (and I mean, REALLY knew him) knew that when he asked for something, he had good reason for doing so.

The driver said "there is no need to call, they are open"

Doctor Dahesh replied, "still, I would very much prefer that we call"

Again, the driver repeated "I am telling you, Doctor, there is no need..."

Now, and before I jump the punchline, let me say that this same driver once prevented Doctor Dahesh from throwing a paper tissue out of a car window, on account that — of course — *one does not do that*...

No sooner had she finished giving him a civic lesson, two cars collide!

Evidently, that paper tissue she prevented him from throwing out of the window would have averted the accident.

And that is exactly why I said nothing to him when he once attempted, once, twice, and three times (which was a charm) to throw a paper tissue of onto the curb. I have that story in Daheshville as well. If you search for "Strawberries" you'll probably find it.

In any case, every time he asked her to call, she refused. That's when he lost it and said something that a normal, typical Doctor Dahesh would not say. It wasn't *that* bad. But totally out of character. And, he did NOT insult her. Far from it. He basically made a rhetorical statement that evoked manure... It was rated "PG"

And, what does she do? Instead of feeling bad about it, she reprimands him by saying: "Great, is that any kind of language one should use?"

I have never seen anyone address the Doctor with such a patronizing tone.

The other time I heard the Doctor utter what might be considered a PG rated comment is when he was telling me about an incident involving someone he knew very well and with whom he had a particular ... how should I put this... "educational agenda"

Basically, the Doctor was entertaining some friends and this "guy" shows up and sits down and joins the conversation, which at the time (and this was in the late 1930's early 1940's probably) about Adolf Hitler. I suppose, Hitler was just coming into power and Doctor Dahesh's and his guest were probably commenting on him...Now, our "guy" who was rather a simpleton, somewhat pretentious, and a tad annoying, made an off the cuff remark that wasn't based on any real research or intelligent opinion.

Doctor Dahesh, who was annoyed at the "guy" retorted in a manner that took everyone by total surprise—they were stunned as a matter of fact.

The guy said "Hayda Hitler bandooooooo' " ("That Hitler is cunniiiiiing!")
The Doctor replied "Hadya Hitler akhu Sharm... " ("Hitler is the brother of a wh***********re")

But let me make it clear: no one dared use profanity around the Doctor, and outside these two episodes, I never heard anything but proper language out of his mouth.

Now, is it possible that Brother Ali would take over his body and use R-Rated language?

I personally could not see it happening.

Then again, there is that story I wrote on Daheshville about the guy who called the Doctor's house and began flinging obscenities that would make a longshorman blush... And my brother Chucri was directed by Doctor Dahesh to respond in kind. Who knows why. Again, that was ONE unique situation. And my brother (who told me the story himself) picked up the phone and yelled at the guy, saying, "Shame on you, you are the son of a dog..." etc.

So, Doctor Dahesh took my brother aside and said to him "What's wrong with you? I told you to *swear* at the guy"

"But, Doctor... I can't... plus, there are women and children around"

"Fine, go in the next room, pick up the phone, and swear at him..."

And... he did...

Now, my Brother Chucri never actually told me what he said to the guy.

But my Brother Georges filled me in... And it was... let's say... colorful...

We don't know why this happened or if Brother Ali was involved.

But I can tell you this, however, one of the requirements that Doctor Dahesh had placed for future Daheshist Priests is that they be the kind of individual that does not use profanity.
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Last edited by Mario; 08-25-2008 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:12 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Personnally, I am not very much offended by profanity. In my opinion, it is much worse to be vulgar or racist than to use crude words.
Some people never use crude words but are vulgar because of what they say. Others use crude words but are never racist or insensitive.

Now regarding your brother Chucri, please tell him that he must write his own book on his experience with Dahesh. Having read both George's and Joseph's books, I feel there is something important still missing because we do not yet have Chucri's testimony.

In George and Joseph's stories, we have the impression that, (even though they had rich personal spiritual experiences), they were Daheshists before having even met Dahesh ! What I mean is that through Chucri's experience, they were predisposed to accept Dahesh as a prophet. In La rencontre, George Chakkour recounts that as soon as he entered Dahesh's house, he felt that he had found his Lord, before even meeting Dahesh.
Joseph Chakkour's case is more complicated. The first time he met Dahesh at an Art Gallery, he merely observed him. Years later, he went to Dahesh's house. But even in Jospeh's story, the reader feels that he had a good predisposition to accept Dahesh as his prophet.

That's why Chucri's book would be important. We would see how did Dahesh impress him while no one in Chucri's entourage was to date a daheshist. It is a whole other experience and very different than joining the "religion" of your brothers.

Besides that fact, Chucri's book could bring some interesting lights on the post Dahesh era, since, as you told us, he married one of the Zahid sisters.

Your own book (Mario's book) would then close the saga.

You guys sure make an interesting family !
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziyad View Post

Besides that fact, Chucri's book could bring some interesting lights on the post Dahesh era, since, as you told us, he married one of the Zahid sisters.

Your own book (Mario's book) would then close the saga.

You guys sure make an interesting family !
Dear Ziyad,

You know, in a way, we could say that Mario is slowly writing a book and offering the various chapters of it, "free of charge" to all of us here in Daheshville. It makes me think of the 19th century authors who were publishing their novels in installments ...

In addition to the interactive aspect of what we have here, he is creating a kind of book "on demand" as if we were attending a conference with him where people would ask direct questions.

The advantage of it this exercise is that there is no censorship or pre-screening of questions.

I think that the unexpected questions that are asked are a very good incentive for Mario to put down what he may otherwise never have thought of writing ... add to this the modesty I know him to have, it would have been difficult for him to write about "himself".

Contrary to what some people may think, Mario does not have any personal agenda.

I say this because he told me so many stories that he would never publish, because he does not want to destroy any one's image that they have built directly or indirectly vis a vis their own public.

However and despite being reserved by nature (except for when people push him beyond the limits of his vast reserve of patience) he does draw the line when it comes to defending the image of the Doctor. And he will tell it as it is in order to destroy any attempt by anyone to unjustly impose themselves as a ruler of Daheshism—even if it is by their remaining silent when others claim that for them!

Concerning Chuccri's case : Mario and I have already told him exactly that at different times.

And for the record Chuccri is not married — may it be officially or otherwise. We should review what Mario has said about this issue ...
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:33 AM
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Thank you Sandrine.

But you know, the more I think about it—and as the Daheshville experiment grows and evolves—I am becoming more and more convinced that there is no escaping the universal laws of marketing.

In other words, the average person may not assign value to anything that is given away freely.

That is why, perhaps, Doctor Dahesh dressed elegantly for the photos that would appear in his books that were sold versus given away for free. Etc.

When something is given away free of charge, it risks losing all "perception of value."

Incidentally, that is why we are not featuring too many excerpts from Doctor Dahesh's books.

For one thing, we don't own the copyright to these works and it is up to those who have inherited that wealth of information to find a way to publish, promote, and sell it.

And, here, I'd like to open up a tangent:

I heard so many remarks regarding "airing dirty laundry" from one individual, yet, that same "peace loving man" has no problem publishing—without permission—several of Doctor Dahesh's books (in complete form) over the internet.

In his opinion, the books must be freely provided.

But how can any garden grow if people are not willing to invest their time and energy into it? Incidentally, money and energy are interchangeable in my analogy.

Anyway, I don't know where I am going with this train of thought.

I just wanted to put it out there.

On the one hand, Doctor Dahesh's words are our Gospel.

Yet, these words are being held back. Meanwhile, some tried totake advantage of this confusion to fulfill their ambition for fame and power, and self-fulfulling prophecies...

As for the The people who are holding us all back... and have essentially caused this problem to begin with... (despite the fact they were once victims themselves... ) they are acting within their legal right!

Here is one funny anecdote... Oh, you're going to love this one:

Years ago, one of the trustees (before my eyes and ears) was annoyed that (let's call him) the person in charge of editing/compiling the books, left out a passage that Doctor Dahesh has written.

That passage had to do with Doctor Dahesh expressing frustration with a Daheshist who (as it turned out) was **the person's** brother in law.

Man, that Trustee was on it!

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING was to be removed from the books...

The mere idea that **the person** would even attempt to edit out a passage written by Doctor Dahesh was never going to happen under that trustees' watch!

Then...

Years later, that same trustee (supposedly, and that bit of news came to me through a very close friend of that **person**) was outraged at what was printed in one of Doctor Dahesh's books... So, and according to legend, that trustee ordered the book taken out of circulation...

Sure, let's all keep telling yourselves that "there is a spiritual reason" why things aren't happening, you know, as part of a big Divine Plan.

And thank you Ziyad: As for Chucri, he did eventually write a book, which so far remains unpublished.

Years ago, he sent us a copy of the 264-page manuscript.
It is called ...

"Du Pardon et de La Loi du Talion"
Reflexions Daheshistes
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Old 08-27-2008, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

As for Chucri, he did eventually write a book, which so far remains unpublished.

Years ago, he sent us a copy of the 264-page manuscript.
It is called ...

"Du Pardon et de La Loi du Talion"
Reflexions Daheshistes
That is very interesting. Do you know why Churcri has not had it published? Maybe he would like to have it or parts of it published on the INTERNET.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:17 PM
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I haven't seen or spoken to him in years. So, it's a safe bet that whatever opinion I have on this matter is no longer valid—especially that
I noticed he is credited as the editor of Josephs' book, which openly attacked David, and which is published by Georges, "The Humanist" (as per his own words).

George's site is still (despite what he published) featured on Dahesh.org.

I recommend that all questions pertaining to these and other Joseph/Georges/Chucri projects be addressed to them directly through Georges' web site (whose link, I repeat, has not been removed, despite the blatant attack on David, and might I add, the subtle attack on me).
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:03 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine View Post
Dear Ziyad,

You know, in a way, we could say that Mario is slowly writing a book and offering the various chapters of it, "free of charge" to all of us here in Daheshville. It makes me think of the 19th century authors who were publishing their novels in installments ...

In addition to the interactive aspect of what we have here, he is creating a kind of book "on demand" as if we were attending a conference with him where people would ask direct questions.

The advantage of it this exercise is that there is no censorship or pre-screening of questions.
You are right, Sandrine.

Having read both Joseph and George's books, I can state with confidence that it is from Mario's posts on this forum that I learned the most about Dahesh and Daheshism.

The only advantage of a printed book is the structure, the chronological or thematical order, but this forum is well organized in sections or subsections.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:10 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

the average person may not assign value to anything that is given away freely.

That is why, perhaps, Doctor Dahesh dressed elegantly for the photos that would appear in his books that were sold versus given away for free. Etc.

When something is given away free of charge, it risks losing all "perception of value."

Incidentally, that is why we are not featuring too many excerpts from Doctor Dahesh's books.
I am not sure I agree with the economic argument presented here.

The "perception of value" argument ceases to be valid in case of extreme scarcity of available resources.

In my case, I wanted to know about Dahesh, so I looked at everything I could find. When sold, I bought the books (Chakkour brothers, Memories of a Dinar, Umbargi...) When not sold, I searched the Internet. And Had I found more Dahesh books available on the Net, I would have learned much more.

The economic argument is also not convincing because this is not a typical situation. I don't want to sound too harsh, but Daheshism is on the verge of extinction, so I think most if not all books should be made available as soon as possible.

It is no longer a question of money. Once you have revivified the faith or attracted new followers, you can go back and think about business models.

Last edited by Ziyad; 08-29-2008 at 06:13 AM.
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