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  #11  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:58 PM
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Default Might I suggest...

Firstly, as always, thank you Ziyad for alerting us.

Actually, and considering what transpired in the past, we've been tracking these recent (relatively-speaking) messages by Mr. Darrick Troy Evenson. However, these messages in of themselves are not any worse than what I saw in some parts of the Future TV broadcast.

It's a free Universe and he is free to repost anything that Daheshism.com or Daheshisme.org does not mind him re-using (the Hilda testimony sounds like something I might have read on the old Daheshism.com).

And the fact that he referenced the Future TV show in one of his posts is proof positive that he is reading Daheshville or Dahesh.org (being that we are the only ones, so far, to have posted, in English, information about this — for better or worse — historical event).

That being the case, I am sure Mr. Evenson has read the warning messages that are still (unfortunately) posted on the main Daheshville page: The reason these messages have not been removed, despite the fact that (practically) all (dozens upon dozen of Angelfire) web sites were removed from circulation, is because dozens upon dozens of other posts remain online. These are the scars we must all live with.

Beyond that, and unless he is clearly and maliciously attacking (to the point the police and district attorney has to get involved– as was the case in the past) and which is not the case here, might I suggest we give him some space and let him be.

Ron, Alan, as I've told you (I believe) more than once in private: Darrick is not — and never was — the real problem.

Godwilling, we'll have a chance to have further discussions. But I just want to say I am proud of all members of the Dahesh Society of America and the fact that Zaven's show recognized us against all odds (if people only knew!) is precious to me.

And, by the way, Alan, thank you for your comments regarding the DSA logo. I just wanted to add, for historical accuracy's sake that — yes — while it is true I designed it (after all, that's my area of expertise) the outcome was the result of review and deliberation. The evidence, albeit hidden from the public, is still in the DV Board of Directors' area.

Yes, Mr. Zaatar may be right in saying to Zaven that Daheshim is not organized. But, I think the DSA is MORALLY organized in the sense that — without IT — dozens upon dozens of web sites distorting Daheshism (some of which attacking Daheshists) would have remained on the air.
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Last edited by Daheshville; 10-22-2010 at 05:58 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2010, 12:33 AM
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Loup Solitaire Loup Solitaire est déconnecté
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Default Well Said

But if Darrick had attached himself to some other religious cause, as he also has, I would have come to the same conclusion and wanted to say the same things. I realize I am not talking for Daheshist alone, but I believe that people who abuse a religious cause for self gain, need to be exposed for who they are. Some people, for reasons I hesitate to generalize about, have difficulty in distinguishing between the real thing and fiction. Now we must admit that there are some claims made about Dr Dahesh that are difficult to comprehend. And as it has been discussed here, there are some claims about Dr Dahesh that are thought fictitious by the early supporters and witnesses of him.

The more discriminating individuals would think long and hard about any claim, and they would search deep within their own heart and soul before arriving at a conclusion. But there are some who desperately seek reinforcement that God is real. Their reasons are varied. At times Darrick can appear lucid, logical, believable. But his motivations are always self serving. I state what I state because of frustration I have over an individual who would do anything to deceive others about his true intentions in regard his religious aspirations of the day. He has done this to the Mormon faith, the Baha'i, Daheshism, and I am sure there are others that have missed my attention. It was interesting that when he attempted to move into Islam, that he got the door slammed in his face immediately. For this I respect those who slammed the door.

But there is nothing I said that is not true. Trust me, he will never ruin my day. But I will never pass up the opportunity to rebuke him as he deserves. The fact that he works both sides of the fence, one day trying to lure people into his realm through religious banter, and the next day capitalizing by baiting people into unethical sexual activities. At times he tries to portray himself as a devout believer, but then verbalizes the cancerous beliefs that dwell within his heart. I am no angel. I have made errors in my life in my personal conduct and I recall these every day. But I never thought of profiting by any way in soliciting or selling sexual services. I will one day need to account for my errors and I know I will pay a price. But I hope I can be honest with myself and with God.

Last edited by Loup Solitaire; 10-23-2010 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Corrected a few typos
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2010, 01:59 AM
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Despite Darrick's activities, I believe that there will always be a group of Daheshist, even if the number is small. For myself, I am uncertain whether Dr Dahesh is a major or a minor Prophet. I apologize to Daheshist who feel otherwise. But I believe he is a Prophet. I believe that because of him I have been brought closer to my Christian roots. I believe that if a Muslim where to understand and meditate about Dr Dahesh, they may well be drawn closer to Islam. I believe that if a Mormon were to reach a better understanding of Dr Dahesh, he will be brought closer to his faith. Maybe this is why he was opposed to proselytizing. Maybe he did not want to create a new, large, popular religious movement dominated by the desire to proselytize. But he only wanted to encourage people to evaluate there relationship to God. And for the few select, there would be a new order to continue his work.

I am still struggling to understand this man who was above the fray between religious zealots. When it comes to Islam, Christianity, Judaism or Mormonism, it is inconsequential how they worship. It is only important that they perfect their relationship with God. Even most of the earliest American Immigrants, that we now call Native Americans, believed in some form of supreme being or force. Their names for this supreme force and the form that this force took varied from ethic group to group. But their beliefs had common elements. Could it have mostly been this way because they had not been fortunate enough to have had a strong and powerful prophet to lead them. Or was it that they were unencumbered with greed. It seems to me that they lived in Eden until the Europeans arrived and, then, Eden was never to be the same. It is true that some were warlike and territorial by choice. But many were peace loving, took only what they needed, held their world and its' well being in high esteem. They did not lust after land or gold or surpluses of any kind.

Despite our technology, our wealth and our comfort, too many of us have failed to come to appreciate the most fundamental of values. One such value would be the appreciation and realization of when we have all that we need. Once our needs have been met, then, immediately, it is the time to start self actualization. Instead, we work to build surpluses exceeding all comprehensible need. Even I find myself building surpluses beyond my need while there are people who went without. I think that I did this in part because there was at time in my life I found myself in possession of wealth well beyond what I needed. I was foolish enough to believe that much of this wealth would remain mine. But in a relatively short period of time, a segment of the population of this country found a creative way to relieve me of this wealth. After years, I have been able to accumulate a reserve to provide for my declining years. But now I find myself in a position that, first, I understand better how to protect myself, I have found creative ways to share, and I am more astute about what constitutes need.

It is interesting that Dr Dahesh seemed to live comfortably in spite of the periods when he was persecuted, tortured, and some say, he or one of his alternate forms was killed. Yes he wrote and published books, but he evidently had sufficient funds for collection of art and travelled extensively to see how people lived in other areas. I don't think he used trickery, witchcraft, or magic to create wealth. I suspect, like the beggar he depended upon others to provide funds or others who shared their surpluses to fund some of his activities. I could be wrong for I was not around when this happened. But it is apparent that people believed in him and his mission.

It is conceivable to me that this spirit can be revived by a group rather than an individual. What a miracle this would be. As Mario has pointed out on many occasions, this does not appear to be the case. But it is never too late. To me many miracles occur when people come together with a common cause and change history forever. It has happened many times over, and, it can happen again.

Although it may be a wasted appeal, I solicit first that people other than myself study Dr Dahesh to understand his true purpose, then reevaluate your relationship with God, then if your are indoctrinated in a religion where God is the core of that belief, go back to that religion and God. If you feel inclined stick with your faith in God, worship where you feel comfortable, look deeply for the true purpose of your faith. When your faith becomes unshakable, return to better understand how Dr Dahesh fits into the realm of God. A few may discover immense strength and courage. I believe, then and only then, might you be prepared to be a Daheshist.

Dr Dahesh was quoted as saying it took twenty years for a person to become a Daheshist. Maybe this is why. Consider this. Consider what is "perfect faith". Jesus had it. Do you?

Last edited by Loup Solitaire; 10-23-2010 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Correct typos
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2010, 11:05 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
And the fact that he referenced the Future TV show in one of his posts is proof positive that he is reading Daheshville or Dahesh.org (being that we are the only ones, so far, to have posted, in English, information about this — for better or worse — historical event).
Yes, few people post on Daheshville but I think many people read it.
I also found a reference to the Zaven show (and a link to the program and to its user's comments) on the webpage of George Henry Chakkour, author of Dahesh le prophète and of Le daheshsime à vol d'oiseau
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2010, 11:08 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seul Loup View Post
Despite our technology, our wealth and our comfort, too many of us have failed to come to appreciate the most fundamental of values. One such value would be the appreciation and realization of when we have all that we need. Once our needs have been met, then, immediately, it is the time to start self actualization. Instead, we work to build surpluses exceeding all comprehensible need. Even I find myself building surpluses beyond my need while there are people who went without. I think that I did this in part because there was at time in my life I found myself in possession of wealth well beyond what I needed. I was foolish enough to believe that much of this wealth would remain mine. But in a relatively short period of time, a segment of the population of this country found a creative way to relieve me of this wealth. After years, I have been able to accumulate a reserve to provide for my declining years. But now I find myself in a position that, first, I understand better how to protect myself, I have found creative ways to share, and I am more astute about what constitutes need.
That's great. That's the core of every true religion. Would you mind telling us a bit more about your background and about how you initially found out about dahesh ?
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2010, 11:28 PM
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Loup Solitaire Loup Solitaire est déconnecté
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Default Finding Dahesh

It was almost mysterious. Have you ever out of frustration or the desire to know something that has been on your mind for years, typed a question such as "What is the meaning of life?" into Google? Well I think the question I typed in was concerning God and reincarnation. Out popped a hit on Dr Dahesh. I don't remember whose web site it was. But then I started to query time and again on Dr Dahesh. Eventually I found my way to Daheshville. Then began the process of sifting through all of the good and bad information on Dr Dahesh. I had to use my intuition to decide who to believe. Eventually I found the Dahesh Heritage web site and I located a book by Salim Onbargi, Reborn With Dr Dahesh. I was impressed with Salim's presentation of the material. I do not believe he was trying to sell anything. He simply told a story of how he encountered Dr Dahesh and how he came travel with Dr Dahesh. He was very believable.

I also discovered some material originated by Ghazi Brax. I was impressed by the concept of Unity of Religions. I contemplated the rationale behind such an idea. Much of the conflict in the world originated due to religious and cultural conflict.

It's been a long journey. In my mind, of foremost importance is man's relationship with God. But few people throughout history pursued a commitment to God meriting a special status. I think Dr Dahesh may have been one of those people.

I confess that some of the miracles attributed to Dr Dahesh are difficult to accept. But I will accept the possibility.

One of the more interesting things is that through no conscious effort on my part I have strangely found myself feeling closer to God than I ever had before. Many coincidences have occurred such as being led to a specific church, unexplained euphoria, etc. Some of these occurred after a few conversations with Mario regarding Dr Dahesh.

I'm not inclined to see flying saucers, communicate with angels, imagine I have been chosen by God or experience any other strange phenomena.

I believe in the laws of physics, the value of math, the science of chemistry and the value of other sciences. But I also accept the possibility that there are some things science can not explain. I am an information technology person. I've spent over 40 years working in the field. While being interested in science, I think there is more.

I am not certain I've answered your question. One of the things that amazes myself is how my thinking has changed since 2007 when I first encountered the name "Dr Dahesh".
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:42 AM
Ziyad Ziyad est déconnecté
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Thanks for explaining your itinerary. That's very interesting. Serendipity is often the way we discover the greatest things.

I did read Ombargi's book which was quite moving. I remember his difficult trip in the boat. Ombargi struck me as an honest unassuming down to earth fellow, but he was not an intellectual and could not make reflections based on the story he told. He merely recounted facts and emotions, which is the strength of his book, but also a weakness if we're trying to get a sociological understanding of the Dahesh phenomenon.

Therefore, I have also read the long book written in English by Mario's brother Joseph, which is very well written, and contains a lot of interesting info about their family, their school, and pre-1975 life in Beirut. Jospeh does a good introspection job and offers lots of interesting reflections.

I then read the book written in French by Mario's other brother, Georges, also an important book, with a foreword written by a relatively well known Quebec writer.

But I still felt something is missing. Both brothers I felt when reading their books were already predisposed to believe in Dahesh BEFORE they met him. Therefore, I still did not have a full understanding of how Dahesh was able to attract followers who did not already have family members being believers.

That's why I think it would be interesting to have the point of view of the elder brother, the one who was the first to become a daheshist. I think his name is Chukri.

I think the answer to the missing questions in my mind lies with Chukri. It's too bad he does not write or post.

I also hope that Mario will soon write his memoirs, and tell the whole story about Dahesh's last years in New York and about Dahesh's legacy and all the posthumous quarrels.
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:38 AM
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Serendipity is one of many beautiful words. But it implies a fortunate discovery by one who has an aptitude for such discoveries. I personally feel it is not my aptitude that brings me to these discoveries but a combination of desire and an external influence. Some people are fully fulfilled and have no interest in such pursuits. But interest in such pursuits does not guarantee the discovery. People everyday are pursuing things that they are desperate to discover. I feel most fortunate that my pursuit of better understanding resulted in a discovery. But I do not feel that it was chance.

I do not feel that one should wait for someone else to lead them to full understanding. And I do not feel that one should use pure reasoning. But instead open your heart and mind to the possibilities. Explore the possibilities by combining this with humble prayer and meditation.

I had mentioned a church. The church is called St Paul's and any Christian should grasp why so many churches assume that name. But this church is rapidly approaching the end of its' second century in existence. It is truly a historic building. At the time it was built it was the only Catholic Church between Baltimore and Frederick Maryland. Within this church is a majestic copy of a statue of St Paul that resides at The Basilica of Saint Paul outside the walls of Rome. Previously, I had never been so aware of St Paul. I, for unexplained reasons find myself mesmerized by the reading of each biblical verse attributed to St Paul. So many things have become clear to me about the origins of the Catholic Church. But at the same time I see so clearly the flaws that it has developed. Yet I don't feel repelled, because I have let this person who gave so much to his ministry influence my thinking.

By focusing on the fundamentals and discarding the unnecessary and ornamental accessories, I feel I am getting what it was that Jesus intended.

It is my belief that Dr Dahesh did not want to start another church or religion, but rather purify those in existence. That does not mean that there will not be an order of dedicated people who will document and expand upon his mission. If this happens, then the entire collection of religions worshiping the True God will benefit.

I have read those books that you mention also. And certainly we desire to first understand the man. We also desire to clearly understand his power. The interesting thing about Joseph's book is that it gives interesting insight to the Chakkour Brothers who have tried passionately to pass on their experiences. But once you understand what you need to understand about the man, one can begin to focus on God.

But I could be wrong, although I hope that I am not. I can envision Daheshism being a unifying and purifying force affecting all religions. Helping them to find their common ground while endorsing different means of worshiping the One True God.

I think a Muslim or a Jew could follow a similar path. I do not think we are to be separated from the beliefs were born into, but we should go back to the origins of our faith and make them as perfect as they were meant to be. It is okay to worship and glorify God in different ways. But we must learn to respect each other.

In the days of colonialism, the major European powers had the power to dominate. These powers for the most part have been relinquished. But some of the mentality has continued. There is a group of influential people who think they know what is best for the world. These people meet annually and exercise considerable power over the governments of many countries. But it is my opinion, these people are Godless. They are humanist who ignore God. Individually them may espouse that they Christian or whatever, but they are incapable of resolving the underlying conflict that causes so much violence and hatred.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seul Loup View Post
It is interesting that Dr Dahesh seemed to live comfortably in spite of the periods when he was persecuted, tortured, and some say, he or one of his alternate forms was killed. Yes he wrote and published books, but he evidently had sufficient funds for collection of art and travelled extensively to see how people lived in other areas. I don't think he used trickery, witchcraft, or magic to create wealth. I suspect, like the beggar he depended upon others to provide funds or others who shared their surpluses to fund some of his activities. I could be wrong for I was not around when this happened. But it is apparent that people believed in him and his mission.

Let's consider this hypothetical example:

Let's say you came in contact with an individual whom you eventually deem to be a major prophet by virtue of the totality of what he represents (his ideas, actions, demeanor, battle scars and — last but not least — the Divine power that has chosen him to be its conduit).

What do you think would be the moral and ethical thing to do when you see him about to pay for his own lunch from money he had to work very hard to gather, despite the fact that he — technically speaking — can cause (legal) money to rain from the sky?

If Doctor Dahesh ever asked anyone for anything it would have been a very rare and isolated case. In my case, for example, he did ask me (and not that he needed it) if I would (literally) cut him a check (he specified the amount) and contribute money. At another time, he showed up out of the blue a the apartment in NY and asked to borrow a large sum of money — which he not only repaid, but insisted on repaying.

Whatever it was, however we define it, we had a *relationship*.

By definition, a beggar gives nothing back and is helpless. And one cannot have a *relationship* with a beggar.

In my case, Doctor Dahesh gave me more than I could ever repay him and he didn't need my money. And, in the final analysis, he always slept in a modest bed, in a room adjacent to the kitchen.

Might I add he suffered chronic pain in his arm, hand, and back from all the accidents that he bargained for in order to save the lives of others?

Sure, the treasures (museum, library, and his writings) he was able to gather were priceless. But he willed it all away in the end to people he trusted would continue his work — especially that it was never about the objects themselves...

And consider that when the casket was placed in the mausoleum , there were only 19 people present. One — volunteer — had to remain and guard the house, as he often did when Doctor Dahesh was still alive.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:15 PM
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Loup Solitaire Loup Solitaire est déconnecté
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Default A Poor Choice of a Word

The word beggar was a poor choice on my part. But it seemed apparent that people readily assisted him in ways that allowed him to live an extraordinary life. I seem to recall that he did not actually own the house he lived in, in Beirut. He traveled to the US and lived in a city known for its' high cost of living. Despite his travels and experience it appears to me that he was truly a humble person.

His worked seemed to be acquiring greater understanding of the world and the forces that makes the world work. I know of no stories or accounting's that imply anyone gave him anything. But what he needed seemed to come to him.

His life in New York could have easily been sustained by the proceeds of sale of his art to the Zahids. But he lived for years in Beirut. Can you give me your theory as to how he supported himself all those years. For example, do you know how many of his books were sold, and what income did they provide?
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